Very interesting points! From a social media agency myself I’ve thought a lot about how to work with bloggers, what I can offer them, and what the benefits can be for both sides of the party.
It's a real challenge sometimes balancing client expectations (/demands!) and genuinely wanting to offer bloggers value at the same time. And from a personal perspective I’m always championing bloggers and trying to explain to clients the value of this new(ish) medium.
The issue of payment is also interesting. Whilst we all fully appreciate the time it takes to write blogs (most of us do it ourselves) and want to reward anyone we work with for their efforts, sometimes clients are put off by the 'sponsored post' label - even though we know most of the time it's still high quality content – there’s a view that these posts will get glazed over by readers as perhaps they lack authentic inspiration. In the case money can't be exchanged then I believe it's about doing our very best to offer value in another way - through content, free products or attending events. In that way PR and social media agencies are merging in their remits.
It's fascinating seeing how this relatively new industry is flourishing and bloggers are discovering their place within the advertising, media, PR and journalism worlds... as blogging spans seemingly ever realm of communication it is the future and a mode of communication (and advertising) that we're all having to figure out, whether we’re bloggers, PRs, social media marketers or advertisers.
It’d be interested to know what you think the future should be? Should we move to a strictly payment model or should blogging remain independent of financial ties?
I'm sure there are many different opinions on the subject and look forward to reading them!
The last two questions and answers are especially interesting.
My mum keeps asking me when someone is going to pay me for all my work, I keep explaining that having products to review and writing for fun is reward enough... however, I wonder if there is ever a likelihood that an income could be made from blogging? I suspect not, but it'd be interesting. The possiblities are endless... would it mean the end of unbiased reviews? would it mean I never had to go to work? ;)
I genuinely am happy with the rewards I get from blogging, getting to try new products, using my brain (which doesn't happen much as I'm a stay at home mum) and writing, as well as the social aspect of it. It is more than enough reward for me. But its interesting to consider how things could be!
This post is VERY timely for me. I just received an email from someone wanting me to promote his eye brow business on my blog. He claimed to be a fan of my blog but didn't know what city I was based in (which I mention all the time). He wanted to offer my readers a discount code. I'm kind of like... I don't know you, I don't think you know me, why should I advertise you on my blog for free?
We'd like you to place this ad we wrote on your blog for which we are being paid for handsomely so basically we want you to do all our work for us for free.
Yay it'll be GREAT for you! I mean it's SO great that we've picked you as an easy mark and we're all totes sniggering at how gullible you are in the office.
Wait, don't read that last sentence, we think you're amaze. Now post that brand propaganda/video up toot sweet, like a good little blogger.
Kthxs bai,
Love
Social Media Charlatan -----------------------
I really hate these guys. No one should ever fall for it. It SUCKS and it's all about taking advantage of bloggers who aren't used to the tactics of the wider media and so don't know that they are in essence being used.
What is the difference between a PR and a Social Media Agency? A Social Media agency acts like PR company, but whereas a PR usually focuses on working with journalists on magazines, newspapers, TV and radio, Social Media agencies try to talk to non-professional writers (i.e. bloggers) to encourage on-line coverage.
Are Social Media Agencies paid a fee? Yes.
Do they pass on any of that fee to bloggers? Almost never.
You appear to have forgotten the following:
Are PR Agencies paid a fee? Yes.
Do they pass on any of that fee to bloggers? Almost never.
PR firms don't pay bloggers to attend and write about events either.
Hi Anon..I haven't *forgotten* that PRs are paid a fee. But their approach is totally different: and generally they are usually talking to people who are completely media savvy, where there are relationships already. And, they haven't - normally - got a hidden agenda. SMAs very often mask the fact that their 'video content' etc is an ad by any other name. PRs generally tell it how it is when it comes to featuring their products..there is no hidden agenda. We know they get paid to do their job. With SMAs the lines are blurred and not so clear in some cases.
I agree. In my limited (but gut wrenching) experience, I have seen that PRs tend to be much more careful and respectful than social "word of mouth" agencies. I haven't gone as far as actually boycotting all of them, but definitely best be vigilant where they're concerned. Something very unpleasant about their whole raison d'etre.
I will never forget your kind support during that fiasco btw! You made me realise the mechanisms in place. Glad you are spreading the word! xx
In the past year I've taken to replying with my rate card to about many of those emails. I don't hear back always but some do reply positively, which means bloggers should definitely speak up! If we don't ask for it (payment), we'll never get it!
Hilarious and at the same time very, very useful. Beautywoome has it right - just thank them kindly for their time and send them your rate card. If you really want free content then ask writers you actually like to write a guest post for you. Without text links. Your blog is yours alone - you wouldn't let someone write Viagra Rocks on the side of your car for nothing would you?!
It's becoming more important for brands to appear online, but many of them don't see it as having the same value as appearing in print media yet - so getting a mention on a blog is seen as a little bonus and the agencies that procure this think a free sample is payment enough. By now the better blogs already have relationships with the PR companies that send them samples, with no pressure to write about them so the freebies are not so attractive any more to a blogger.
I think it is important for agencies to remember why you start a blog in the first place, it's your space and your thoughts and if somebody wants a piece of that then they should be prepared to offer an incentive that makes it worth your while helping to promote their product.
Agencies will have to get used to having a clearly marked disclosure statement that informs the reader it is a sponsored post. If the blogger is allowed to write the content in their own style and it is done properly it can be just as engaging as any other post.
Blogs can work commercially if all parties are clear about where they stand and expectations are clear from the start of any collaboration.
With 11 years of online experience having my own site and setting up Handpicked Media I have tried to pass on my experiences to make sure we can all play nicely together.
I am really new to blogging, and have never had any contact with PRs or Social Media Agencies, but I do think about what I would do if I was ever in that situation. I am completely in agreement that agencies trying to get content and products featured for nothing is wrong, but what's the difference between that and a blogger accepting freebies and invitations to events? You* still provide free content for the brand afterwards, usually favourable because you've had a nice time at the event and got some goodies. I suppose I don't really see the difference in the outcome - coverage of a brand/product on a blog for free (or the very small cost to the brand of a couple of products).
If you worked full time for a magazine writing about beauty, would you accept products in lieu of a salary? I doubt it. I guess what I'm trying to say, badly, is that if I'm ever approached by a PR or an agency, I'd say no to everything so that my blog and my opinions could remain completely independent and in no way biased to a brand based on what they've given to me. I suppose it's difficult if you want to feature upcoming products before they're on the market, but if you're happy to wait until you can buy them, then why hop on board with some aspects of blogging but get cross about others?
*I don't mean you, BBB, per se, just all bloggers that get invited to things and sent products.
As always a very thought provoking post. I'm in a similar position to Charlie in that I blog to keep my mind active and it's a subject I enjoy. Add to that, it's in a similar ball park to my previous job so the opportunity to fill the void in my CV whilst I'm a stay at home Mum is very useful.
I'm always quite surprised when anyone contacts me. I hope to see beyond the flattery though and would prefer to only feature things that are appropriate to my readers. I can't see me featuring either the ties or naval spray (nice!) anytime soon!
I haven't had much contact from 'Social Media Agencies' thankfully, but on one occasion I was contacted and asked to review a product which they would send out to me. I naively agreed and when the post went live I was continually contacted by this 'expert' and told to include a list of keywords and links. The post came down and I'm a lot more savvy now.
I think I've been lucky with the SMAs that I've been in contact with. Only one slightly dubious lot.. but in balance, have had some negative pushy PR experience too.
I'm surprised at the fee thing and can't work out if you're suggesting that they should pass on part of the fee to bloggers.
All this talk of incentives and blogs going commercial feels so wrong to me. I hope you don't mind, but it seemed like too good a topic not to blog about myself.
I don't want to come on your blog and link mine so wont, but I also didn't want to talk about it without letting you know that I have.
As an expereinced blogger I had everything you can imagine, PR (nice, not nice), SMA with silly stuff but also really nice people (really nice!) and I do the following: I review good products. I do not take invitations unless I am a fan of the brand. I do offer adspace on my blog. I do communicate this on my blog and promote it. I do write for others a s a blogger/blog related content for living.
The blog remains indipendent in any case.
I am often a bit envious on blogger who get stuff, a lot of freebies, invitations, are toted around, but then I think - yeah, but the do not get a PENNY out of it. They can do it because they have spare time (students) but otherwise? It is nearly impossible to earn through online advertising unless you have half a million visits at least!! a month. But direct advertising without SMA will bring you some cash and save smaller companies also money.
16 comments:
Very interesting points! From a social media agency myself I’ve thought a lot about how to work with bloggers, what I can offer them, and what the benefits can be for both sides of the party.
It's a real challenge sometimes balancing client expectations (/demands!) and genuinely wanting to offer bloggers value at the same time. And from a personal perspective I’m always championing bloggers and trying to explain to clients the value of this new(ish) medium.
The issue of payment is also interesting. Whilst we all fully appreciate the time it takes to write blogs (most of us do it ourselves) and want to reward anyone we work with for their efforts, sometimes clients are put off by the 'sponsored post' label - even though we know most of the time it's still high quality content – there’s a view that these posts will get glazed over by readers as perhaps they lack authentic inspiration. In the case money can't be exchanged then I believe it's about doing our very best to offer value in another way - through content, free products or attending events. In that way PR and social media agencies are merging in their remits.
It's fascinating seeing how this relatively new industry is flourishing and bloggers are discovering their place within the advertising, media, PR and journalism worlds... as blogging spans seemingly ever realm of communication it is the future and a mode of communication (and advertising) that we're all having to figure out, whether we’re bloggers, PRs, social media marketers or advertisers.
It’d be interested to know what you think the future should be? Should we move to a strictly payment model or should blogging remain independent of financial ties?
I'm sure there are many different opinions on the subject and look forward to reading them!
Hahahahahahahahaha.
The last two questions and answers are especially interesting.
My mum keeps asking me when someone is going to pay me for all my work, I keep explaining that having products to review and writing for fun is reward enough... however, I wonder if there is ever a likelihood that an income could be made from blogging? I suspect not, but it'd be interesting. The possiblities are endless... would it mean the end of unbiased reviews? would it mean I never had to go to work? ;)
I genuinely am happy with the rewards I get from blogging, getting to try new products, using my brain (which doesn't happen much as I'm a stay at home mum) and writing, as well as the social aspect of it. It is more than enough reward for me. But its interesting to consider how things could be!
This post is VERY timely for me. I just received an email from someone wanting me to promote his eye brow business on my blog. He claimed to be a fan of my blog but didn't know what city I was based in (which I mention all the time). He wanted to offer my readers a discount code. I'm kind of like... I don't know you, I don't think you know me, why should I advertise you on my blog for free?
Hi!
We'd like you to place this ad we wrote on your blog for which we are being paid for handsomely so basically we want you to do all our work for us for free.
Yay it'll be GREAT for you! I mean it's SO great that we've picked you as an easy mark and we're all totes sniggering at how gullible you are in the office.
Wait, don't read that last sentence, we think you're amaze. Now post that brand propaganda/video up toot sweet, like a good little blogger.
Kthxs bai,
Love
Social Media Charlatan
-----------------------
I really hate these guys. No one should ever fall for it. It SUCKS and it's all about taking advantage of bloggers who aren't used to the tactics of the wider media and so don't know that they are in essence being used.
What is the difference between a PR and a Social Media Agency?
A Social Media agency acts like PR company, but whereas a PR usually focuses on working with journalists on magazines, newspapers, TV and radio, Social Media agencies try to talk to non-professional writers (i.e. bloggers) to encourage on-line coverage.
Are Social Media Agencies paid a fee?
Yes.
Do they pass on any of that fee to bloggers?
Almost never.
You appear to have forgotten the following:
Are PR Agencies paid a fee?
Yes.
Do they pass on any of that fee to bloggers?
Almost never.
PR firms don't pay bloggers to attend and write about events either.
Hi Anon..I haven't *forgotten* that PRs are paid a fee. But their approach is totally different: and generally they are usually talking to people who are completely media savvy, where there are relationships already. And, they haven't - normally - got a hidden agenda. SMAs very often mask the fact that their 'video content' etc is an ad by any other name. PRs generally tell it how it is when it comes to featuring their products..there is no hidden agenda. We know they get paid to do their job. With SMAs the lines are blurred and not so clear in some cases.
I agree. In my limited (but gut wrenching) experience, I have seen that PRs tend to be much more careful and respectful than social "word of mouth" agencies. I haven't gone as far as actually boycotting all of them, but definitely best be vigilant where they're concerned. Something very unpleasant about their whole raison d'etre.
I will never forget your kind support during that fiasco btw! You made me realise the mechanisms in place. Glad you are spreading the word!
xx
In the past year I've taken to replying with my rate card to about many of those emails. I don't hear back always but some do reply positively, which means bloggers should definitely speak up! If we don't ask for it (payment), we'll never get it!
Hilarious and at the same time very, very useful.
Beautywoome has it right - just thank them kindly for their time and send them your rate card. If you really want free content then ask writers you actually like to write a guest post for you. Without text links. Your blog is yours alone - you wouldn't let someone write Viagra Rocks on the side of your car for nothing would you?!
It's becoming more important for brands to appear online, but many of them don't see it as having the same value as appearing in print media yet - so getting a mention on a blog is seen as a little bonus and the agencies that procure this think a free sample is payment enough. By now the better blogs already have relationships with the PR companies that send them samples, with no pressure to write about them so the freebies are not so attractive any more to a blogger.
I think it is important for agencies to remember why you start a blog in the first place, it's your space and your thoughts and if somebody wants a piece of that then they should be prepared to offer an incentive that makes it worth your while helping to promote their product.
Agencies will have to get used to having a clearly marked disclosure statement that informs the reader it is a sponsored post. If the blogger is allowed to write the content in their own style and it is done properly it can be just as engaging as any other post.
Blogs can work commercially if all parties are clear about where they stand and expectations are clear from the start of any collaboration.
With 11 years of online experience having my own site and setting up Handpicked Media I have tried to pass on my experiences to make sure we can all play nicely together.
I am really new to blogging, and have never had any contact with PRs or Social Media Agencies, but I do think about what I would do if I was ever in that situation. I am completely in agreement that agencies trying to get content and products featured for nothing is wrong, but what's the difference between that and a blogger accepting freebies and invitations to events? You* still provide free content for the brand afterwards, usually favourable because you've had a nice time at the event and got some goodies. I suppose I don't really see the difference in the outcome - coverage of a brand/product on a blog for free (or the very small cost to the brand of a couple of products).
If you worked full time for a magazine writing about beauty, would you accept products in lieu of a salary? I doubt it. I guess what I'm trying to say, badly, is that if I'm ever approached by a PR or an agency, I'd say no to everything so that my blog and my opinions could remain completely independent and in no way biased to a brand based on what they've given to me. I suppose it's difficult if you want to feature upcoming products before they're on the market, but if you're happy to wait until you can buy them, then why hop on board with some aspects of blogging but get cross about others?
*I don't mean you, BBB, per se, just all bloggers that get invited to things and sent products.
As always a very thought provoking post. I'm in a similar position to Charlie in that I blog to keep my mind active and it's a subject I enjoy. Add to that, it's in a similar ball park to my previous job so the opportunity to fill the void in my CV whilst I'm a stay at home Mum is very useful.
I'm always quite surprised when anyone contacts me. I hope to see beyond the flattery though and would prefer to only feature things that are appropriate to my readers. I can't see me featuring either the ties or naval spray (nice!) anytime soon!
I haven't had much contact from 'Social Media Agencies' thankfully, but on one occasion I was contacted and asked to review a product which they would send out to me. I naively agreed and when the post went live I was continually contacted by this 'expert' and told to include a list of keywords and links. The post came down and I'm a lot more savvy now.
I think I've been lucky with the SMAs that I've been in contact with. Only one slightly dubious lot.. but in balance, have had some negative pushy PR experience too.
I'm surprised at the fee thing and can't work out if you're suggesting that they should pass on part of the fee to bloggers.
All this talk of incentives and blogs going commercial feels so wrong to me. I hope you don't mind, but it seemed like too good a topic not to blog about myself.
I don't want to come on your blog and link mine so wont, but I also didn't want to talk about it without letting you know that I have.
As an expereinced blogger I had everything you can imagine, PR (nice, not nice), SMA with silly stuff but also really nice people (really nice!) and I do the following:
I review good products.
I do not take invitations unless I am a fan of the brand.
I do offer adspace on my blog. I do communicate this on my blog and promote it.
I do write for others a s a blogger/blog related content for living.
The blog remains indipendent in any case.
I am often a bit envious on blogger who get stuff, a lot of freebies, invitations, are toted around, but then I think - yeah, but the do not get a PENNY out of it. They can do it because they have spare time (students) but otherwise? It is nearly impossible to earn through online advertising unless you have half a million visits at least!! a month.
But direct advertising without SMA will bring you some cash and save smaller companies also money.
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