You couldn't have put it better! I spent most of my university career and all my holidays (English students don't have many lectures!)slogging my guts out at glossy mags in hope of a job. This included doing Christmas shopping for the beauty editors son, spending hours in the ironing cupboard and being bagel/coffee/water fetcher all in the name of 'experience'. One of my most important jobs was to hand wash one of the editors cups every night as they didn't trust the dishwasher! When I was finally offered a paid for position at the glossiest of the glossies, much to my delight, it was a on four figure salary...and this was in 2001! So you are completely correct , the only girls who can work for free (as four figure salaries are still practically working for free) are the ones that can be otherwise supported, meaning that a lot of hard working girls have to go elsewhere - and that is why we get fashion and beauty writers suggesting we use pipe cleaners as eyebrow accessories!
This is something very close to my heart. I never had the money, nor the parents living in London, to do an internship. Despite graduating top of my class on a prestigious fashion journalism postgrad and, at that time, having one years writing experience (but not in-house coffe making and the like)I could not get a paid job.
Instead I took the long route and kept freelancing until I had enough contacts and work to pay the bills, but it's tough knowing I'll never have my dream job because I can't afford to work for free.
It just goes to show how a valuable educational concept such as internship can be exploited and abused by greedy employers. Ideally, an internship provides valuable on-site experience which can't be duplicated in a classroom. It's meant to be an integral part of the educational experience. Many times, course credit is granted or it's part of a course's requirements. And, in some cases, the interns are actually paid! Imposing an internship requirement on someone who has exited school and is ready to work is, as you put it, ". . .thoroughly nasty. . ."
What an excellent post, and as another poster said, something close to my heart. I graduated 3 years ago with a Journalism degree, did my fair share of interning for free finally got a job at a newspaper and then got made redundant. After doing more interning for free and no offers of paid work, I had to kiss goodbye to my dream job, I couldn't afford to try and support myself and paying for travel to get nothing in return, mainly being treated like pond life by all the permanent workers. All I saw were rich kids who were lucky enough to be funded by there parents and intern until they got a permanent position. I can't help but feel how unfair it is for people that don't have this luxury and I really wish there was a solution to it! (Apologies for the mini rant but this is a topic that really makes me mad)
DINKY and BBB, it is FANTASTIC see this addressed in the public realm. I too do not have the privilege of mummy and daddy to foot my bill as an adult or student and have never been able to take an internship to 'further' my career. Every one I had ever seen (I'm 29) has been unpaid. No joke. It's common practice in America. You would be hard pressed to find one that actually did pay.
Instead, I tirelessly worked down an indirect path towards my goals, finding paid work to support myself while letting the other stuff become a hobby. Indeed, it's wage slavedom to which many a current wage slave would growl 'that's life. Deal with it. We can't all do what we like in this life'. However, what these disgruntled wage slaves miss is that, with a few minor changes (paying interns and opening up the institution to the less-than wealthy who posses the skills), a fulfilling work life outside of cubical hell could be available to you too and the industries at hand would benefit from your added and different perspective.
It absolutely riles me too see all sorts of people who pretend as if they've gotten the job or founded something because of their own sweat and skill when, it's like you say, they were either simply in line behind someone without parental funding (even as an adult). The same things has happened in journalism. Won't write an article for free? Don't worry, there's someone out there who will, thereby depressing the wages of the entire industry, rendering it useless as a livelihood. There's something to be said for group think when it benefits the you directly. I don't understand how people cannot grasp that point. Even the selfish ones - it will be a boon to you to hold out! What are you missing there!
It's unethical and irresponsible - not to mention short sighted - behaviour on behalf of companies who do this. Let's put it this way. Companies, if you don't have the money to pay interns, YOUR BUSINESS MODEL IS NOT VIABLE. If you do have the money and just don't want to do it, then that's unethical. Either way, you don't look good.
It's short sighted because as a company and an employee, you simply maintain the status quo with this practice, never pushing the boundaries or nurturing innovation because there's no variation in the people-scape or collective background. There is no margin.
However, I find that I am capable far beyond a lot of those at my stage in life, probably due, in large part, to the scrappiness I've cultivated over the years. I appreciate the experience I've had. It hasn't been easy but then, as any good Buddhist would say, life is suffering!
Seriously, the route in life of the un-funded might be rougher than those born into money, but those without the proverbial silver spoon can very often end up being good at what they do with (gasp) real skills. And, it is true, life isn't fair, but it also isn't static. It's dynamic and we shouldn't treat it as if it's anything else.
I think one of the worst is when they make YOU pay for the internship. I know Dior does this every year with their charity auction, and every year it usually gets about $3000+ or so. Even though its for charity, its still pretty questionable.
Great post. I remember back when I was at university in the early 2000s, I was called in for a "chat" at the Estee Lauder head office to talk about the "opportunity" to get work experience there over the summer. When I was there, I was told interns would be unpaid and would also need to commit to a minimum of 3 months. Unpaid for 3 months in Central London?! And they have at least 5 interns on the go at any one time.
I think the disbelief must have shown in my face because the HR girl made sure to tell me that "We get a lot of applications from people wanting to work here. You'll find a lot of them have extra jobs on the side, in restaurants and bars for example, to allow them to work here".
But then when pressed, she seemed to actually be embarrassed to explain that the job wouldn't involve any real experience of working there. She even added "but everyone has to do filing, even my manager does filing". But actually, I've since heard from people who have been there that the interns there don't even get to do filing - it's mostly making tea.
It's totally true that these jobs often end up being the privilege of only the already-rich. I'm sure the companies tell themselves that they only get the most keen employees this way (the ones who will do *anything* to work there), but they also miss out on a lot of other good candidates.
Hahaha @ pipe cleaners as eyebrow accessories. Exactly!
Here in Canada, it's pretty much a given that you won't get a magazine staff job without an internship on your resume. And I can only think of a handful of places that pay an honorarium ($500 for 3 months - something like that), and NONE of them are fashion or beauty mags.
At the same time, I hate to say it but about 50% of the interns I've worked with over the years weren't going to make it anyway - either they just didn't have the writing skills, or they had a bad attitude, etc. I'm constantly finding this with writers I work with too - so many times I've given people the benefit of the doubt (assuming they will be great because they have so much experience) and they turn in shoddy work.
This field is so subjective - I think that's part of reason why unpaid internships have caught on, as you get to "test" someone out before hiring. But maybe if they were compensated properly it would raise the bar. (I still blame Sex and the City for the influx of Scary Sadshaws!)
Anyway, not holding my breath that it's going to happen any time soon!
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels strongly about this subject. I have noticed a surge of 'internship' positions advertised compared to when I was at school, writing to magazines for work experience and getting hundreds of rejection letters. I got a couple of opportunities but then I was faced with the problem of getting a job in journalism and like one of the ladies who's commented above, took the route of freelancing to build up contacts and experience.
I've had a considerable number of articles published in glossy magazines (including my first ever cover story) but it hasn't made things any easier, not when there is a preference to 'exploit' with these unpaid internships. How on earth can anyone be expected to give up a year of their working life to NOT be paid?
No matter how much it's glammed up, it's simply free labour. And I'm afraid, if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys and that will reflect in the standard of work magazines produce.
Unfortunately I've now got magazine editors (some of whom paid me to write for them) claiming they can't pay me but I am more than welcome to write for them, bearing in mind I won't get paid. I don't think so. It takes me months sometimes to research, interview and write up my features so to not receive some kind of acknowledgement and respect for it is insulting. But just because I've turned them down politely, I'm sure there are plenty who will be happy to slog their guts out for nothing till the novelty wears off.
I've done a lot of unpaid written work and most of it is for my own website (and now blogs), and they have filled me with more happiness and satisfaction so no regrets there, considering there is no profit involved in those projects and I will continue to devote myself to these but I am afraid my days at getting paid for my writing are over.
OMG - this is something that I try not to get too wound up about on a DAILY basis! At the ripe, old age of 33 I find myself a financially challenged cosmetic obsessive that would have KILLED to be able to follow my passion as a career in one form or another. To be frank, I come from a place where I couldn't even afford to stay beyond my first year in university so blagged my way into various jobs in investment banking. Now here I sit having been made redundant last week trying to figure out how to make my job choices so that I can pay for a roof over my head but not want to fling myself out of the nearest window. And how is it that one of my friends now does post-grad communications lecturing at Leeds Uni after having to give up working in Central London on £15k for too many years doing PR for one of the nation's best known spa based beauty brands? And what about my fashion PR genius friend now living in NYC that literally works for free? Are her placements at Chanel, GAP, Anne Klein, etc in London worth nothing? SHe's just lucky she has a boyf that can afford to keep her! The injustices of fair payment make me mad, but the lack of equal opportunity for the fiduciarily challenged is what really gets me going. Ok, I'm officially in ranting mode now. Off to watch a YouTube video of otters holding handsin order to calm down and feel better about life again.
So thrilled to hear that there are some people at the top of the industry who feel the same as those at the bottom! After a long stint of internships, I had to sell ot to a paid job elsewhere- I even had to buy one beauty editor's week's supply of cheese! It is also great to hear that free labour is not the only way to get into the beauty world and that determination and freelancing can get you just as far- long reign the rebellious beauty intern! Thanks BBB x
Great post. It is exactly the same in the Music Industry. I have been working in music PR for a couple of years now, while doing my degree. Finishing in February I am looking for work, been approached by someone offering a full-time position as a PR assistant, surprise surprise, it's payless. There is NO way I could support myself in London with zero income, even if it's my 'dream job'. My next plan is to start my own company ;)
Great post.... and something I feel strongly about too...
When I graduated in 2002 I was offered a 6-month unpaid internship in the fashion department of a leading glossy. I said no - my Dad had offered to support me, but I wanted to pay my own way - and I had spent all my university holidays doing free work experience at various publications and I was OVER it. When I turned down the position (over the telephone) the girl didn't bother trying to hide her shock. I think the words were along the lines of 'No-one ever turns down this position'... I was told that I was naive to think I would get a paid job - apparently that wasn't how the industry worked...
Well - I proved them wrong. Within a few weeks, I was sitting at my desk on a national magazine (a weekly - and not in fashion - but I found my way there eventually, through lots of hard work). I wanted to ring that girl up and inform her that I was getting a pay packet every month - I felt like I'd beaten the system.
However - I had to eat my words. 7 years later, I was on the fashion desk of a national paper and it was my job to recruit the interns. I had to do it - otherwise I'd be shown the door - but it made me sick that they were doing so much (boring, mundane, repetitive) work for nothing - not even train fares. On the other hand, the company don't treat their employees well either - I wasn't getting sick pay or bank holiday pay, but at least I was getting something. It is true that not all of the interns were very good - and a couple of the REALLY good ones ended up with jobs. But there were still a good 80% good, ambitious interns that were doing this with no hope of ever securing a role.
Having said that, I don't know how the situation can ever change... To award somebody a full-time, paid role, you want to know that they a) have some previous experience and b) understand the nature of the role (not all glamour photo shoots - but actually a lot of mundane tasks too) - so surely if we do start paying for interns, there will need to be a level below (perhaps it'll just be called 'work experience') for them to get these qualifications? I really hope the situation can be resolved - but I just can't see it happening.
We take on interns every year - we recruit from unis with courses which require a year's industry placement. I'm pleased to say that we have always paid our interns. I consider the intern to be very much part of the team - they have a fresh approach to the industry and usually offer a very positive contribution to the company. I think your post is really interesting and does raise a very valid issue. Students leave uni these days with huge amounts of debt due to course fees so adding to that extoritionate London living costs for an unpaid placement is just not an option for the majority of people. I hope other companies follow suit and start paying for these team members.
Excellent Post BB. As a man working in the beauty industry from not the most opulent of backgrounds, this rings far too true. Whilst my company is good here in that it pays interns fully, the rest could certainly do the same. Without pay, internships becomes the reserve of the privileged and not necessarily the most able, just like the judiciary and the media.
I'm thrilled to see such an influential voice in the industry finally speak up about this problem - thank you BBB! I've been interning for free at a publication for the last 6 months as part of my sandwich degree, with another 6 months to go. Although that places me as one of the lucky few that has some of her funding covered by the folks, this does not mean an easy ride. Both my parents have had to make serious cut backs and sacrifices to pay for my living costs, I do not come from a well-off background and they are going without so that I can have my "dream job" - an element of this year I wake up and feel sick with every day. I'm 22 and feel terrible for having to rely on my parents for money at this age. They consistantly tell me they want to help but this does not distract from my fear that they do not realise how far up the ladder I am still yet to climb. These days, my chances of getting a paid job in journalism after I graduate are looking increasingly pathetic, and yet both my family and I have confirmed we cannot afford another unpaid placement.
So what will I do? Give up on my dreams after I've achieved a valuable years experience just because I won't work for free again? Does that fact instantly slot me into the "doesn't want it bad enough" catagory?
It’s a tricky one! Personally, I completely agree with the ranting, and rant about it myself. We have had girls come for interview for (paid) positions at Diary & Diary Directory who have been interning at magazines for, in some cases, up to two years unpaid! It was my understanding that the National Minimum Wage was a legal requirement unless under certain specific circumstances – eg a required temporary work placement (ie a couple of weeks) as part of a relevant course of study. As to whether it is the responsibility of publications not to advertise internships, we are in a competitive market where customer service is paramount, and if Diary won’t post our paying subscribers’ intern vacancies – someone else will. (I have had a look at Diary Directory’s Job Lots page and currently we have 8 paid vacancies, and 7 internships.) We often speak to people, not only journalists, but stylists, make-up artists, photographers, illustrators etc, who are suffering because they are finding it increasingly difficult to get paid a fair wage for their work – prospective employers can instead commission a keen, recent graduate, who is only to happy to work for free… for now. Until the bills and other costly realities of life kick in. Perhaps then, when they have the temerity to ask for a wage, they will be replaced by a more recent graduate / someone less financially encumbered! My own opinion, is that people should not work / be expected to work more than a couple of weeks unpaid, that they should always receive expenses, and, perhaps most importantly, that the job should offer them real and useful experience. Diary used an intern recently (she was American and did two weeks work experience as part of her ‘English Studies’ course which required a summer stay in the UK). Whilst she was here, she was taught to mail merge, how to do some basic html, a bit about databases, and massively improved her phone skills (don’t underestimate them!) A friend of hers on the same course interned at a PR agency (not to be named!) and spent a week dusting, tidying – and varnishing a door. It is not publications’ responsibility to enforce the NMW law, but that of the companies trying to get free labour. But you have made me think - perhaps Diary will start requesting a guarantee from advertisers that their internships are short-term, with expenses paid, and where real experience is being offered. We won’t be able to police it – but perhaps it’s a start?
Thank you BBB for raising this issue. It’s so nice to know people at the top are concerned by this too. As a current intern, struggling to find a job, I can confirm it is almost impossible to find paid placements. I have been interning on the beauty teams of various UK magazines for about a year now and have only had two paid placements, which actually makes me one of the very lucky ones! Despite having had really positive feedback everywhere I’ve worked, I’ve still not managed to find a permanent job, which means I’ve had to live off my rapidly dwindling savings and hand outs from my extremely generous and understanding boyfriend!! I have to leave my current placement at the end of this month, and I’m wondering if it’s time to give up on the ‘dream career’ and find a job that pays…
At every Christmas Party our CEO gets on the mic with a mighty speach about how we're doing profit wise, how important the people are in the company and how much we have saved by having interns... a cringe worthy moment that makes my skin crawl.
Yes let's get these interns in and pay them ZERO for their hard work and throw them a few goodies here and there to try and make up for the fact that we cannot pay them when the company is going into the millions where profit is concerns is quite frankly disgusting... don't get me started on not recruiting when a member of the team goes elsewhere and there is more work for everyone else(but that's another story!)
I am one of the lucky ones whereby I found a company that paid their interns well and got the goodies too but I have no idea how these poor students do it now!
What a disgusting practice! I am actually wondering why anyone bothers to go to uni - clearly, all you need is a rich mum and dad to fund you while you slave away in some office fetching coffee for people. How sad. Why not pay a fair wage, instead of using what is essentially slave labour to boost the profits, and actually make it sound like you are doing them a favour? Oh, and then to "reward" them with another wageless job? Wow... What an absolute farce!
I think that placements are a good idea, it helps you learn not only if you are good at something but if you actually enjoy it as well. However, I have completed a few in my time and when you have to pay £100 a week to go to 'work' and all you do is become the office 'skivvy' then there is no benefit for anyone. I think that if there is a structured scheme then placements are invaluable experience, but so many companies now take advantage of people desperate for jobs. I really think there needs to be some guidelines put in place, but I will say that some of the placements that I have done in the past have also been amazing. I have learnt so much from them and that has got me to a paid job which i love today!
Internships are such a minefield in my experience. I'm 26, and have been working for a national publishing company, in paid for positions, since I graduated 2 years ago. When I had my interview, despite the fact that I'd attended a top 10 university and had a Second Class Honours degree, the only thing my employers were interested in was the work I'd done 'in my spare time'. Since I was sixteen, I've had a succession of paid and unpaid for jobs, shop and bar work, telephone sales, and a few lots of work experience/internship positions. The only way I was able to take these unpaid positions was because I had paid jobs too, and I didn't agree to any internships that were longer than three weeks. I made it clear to my employers that I was hugely interested in their brand and the work they do - even if I wasn't - and that I wanted to get involved in as much as possible to make the most of my time and theirs. Maybe I was lucky, but I never once got asked to make tea or tidy away boxes or anything. These placements included and international record company and a national glossy, btw. I am totally in support of people being paid for internships because of what they offer to a company (often more than what the company offers them), but I cannot stress enough the importance of getting a few of them under your belt. They're such a good way to build up contacts, get insight into a business and a brand, and figure out if that place is somewhere you'd like to work. However, it irks me massively when I hear about interns being taken for a complete ride and being given utterly menial, non-educational tasks to do, but then that intern should speak up and offer to do something more engaging, or make it clear that they want to work hard on something useful. I've seen interns at my company do the task they've been assigned, and then sit at the desk waiting to be told what to do next. It's all about initiave and getting in there first. If you irritate your boss into giving you more to do, and prove you can do it quickly and efficiently, the chances are you won't be stuck making tea for much longer. Times like this are ideal to prove yourself as an intern because companies are short-staffed and cash-strapped. A month of hard work from an intern can make such a difference to both parties, but interns shouldn't just expect to turn up and be given a feature to write or a celebrity to interview! What you put in will come back eventually. It's a hard way to go about it, but it's probably one of the best, too.
It's the same in TV/advertising industry. Companies think people should be grateful for the privilege of working for free for known names.
I have a friend who started to work as a runner for a national TV station and after non paid internship was offered a job for less than £10k - this meant for her taking loans to live in London without slightest excess. The poor girls is still in debt in her late 20s. It's absolutely shocking how little talented people are worth these days.
Brilliant article, and it's not just the beauty industry either. I work in the marketing industry, and saw much of the same here in the states when I was looking for my current job. If it wasn't an unpaid internship, it was wanting a degree and experience but paying a wage that, incidently, is well below what is considered "very low income" in housing standards.
Free labor isn't just for the young and recently graduated, either! When my mom was looking for a new job, she encountered positions wanting her to work for up to 80 hours unpaid as a professor! An experienced, well-referenced and recommended professor with 2 advanced degrees. Unbelieveable. Not to mention the location where her unpaid work would be was a good 2 hours' drive away.
My company recently hired a friend of mine to intern, but in the truer sense of what an internship is meant to be. She won't actually really be contributing to the projects we have going so much as learning about what we do so she can add skills to her resume. We don't have coffee (but we do have a starbucks across the street) or files. ;) By the way, this isn't her full time job. What she's doing is working full time as a waitress and interning 2 or so days a week during the day. She jokes about us giving her all the random slave labor we don't want to do, but that will certainly not be the case and I look forward to teaching her some things. :)
California was hit VERY hard by the economy, and though economic situations are improving, the job market out here has not seen much improvement. We have an influx of experienced unemployed people willing to take ANY job, even entry-level, as long as it's paid. The recent grads don't have much of a chance, I'm afraid. My friend graduated over a year ago from her graphic design program and says only 1 classmate that she knows of has paid work in their field. Shocking.
I have to say, throughout my degree I pushed myself (without income from my parents)working where I could at PR companies and publications for free whilst also holding down a bar job five nights a week. Yes, it was tough but boy do I feel good for it now. I learnt more than being at university and made many valuable contacts that have helped my throughout my career.
I now take on interns in my PR job now and take pride that I havent forgot how it was for me five years ago. I make sure my girls are well looked after. Yes, I cannot pay them but I do give them a great insight into the world of PR, teaching them key skills that have been passed down from previous peers. Interns are not there to clean your shoes, buy your cheese or wash your mugs. They are with a company to gain experience in their chosen field, learn and grow in order to fly the nest and work their way up the ladder just like I did 5 years ago. It is hard that many smaller companies do not pay interns and I do agree something should be changed. The government had started a scheme whereby they would pay companies to enrol interns which would then be handed directly to the intern as payment. When myself and my last intern looked into this we got nowhere. In fact, our final answer was to speak to Gordan Brown!
PR's and journalists please stop and think about the way to treat your interns. Show them respect and teach them all you know.
I own a tiny beauty company. We have two full time employees and in the past year we have had 2 unpaid interns. I think this is exactly the sort of situation where an unpaid internship is a good thing. I can't afford to pay my interns, I only pay myself and my other staff member minimum wage. The company is still new and entering into a contract with staff is very risky still. The interns that have worked with us where offered positions for a 3 week period, which is what the employment office suggests for unpiad internships. Both learned so much here that they have asked to return, unpaid, as they are getting more experience here than in the paid jobs they left to do. I agree that big companies should be more fair, but little companies simply wouldn't be able to afford it. And an internship is all about experience and learning after all. Worst case I heard was someone working at a big fashion brand (shall remain nameless) for free for a year. That is no longer an internship- that is a job.
I thought this was a great post. Im an inspiring fashion buyer and the past few months have been seeking experience interning. I found many vacancies but they were opportunities with 2 companies advertising for an intern to work for 3 months and even 9 months unpaid without expenses in central london!
I decided against any of those opportunities because i felt it was exploitation.It did get me thinking how could anyone afford to work for nothing and more often then not its candidates with rich families who can support them.
I was once told that it was important to never undersell your self and underestimate your worth and likewise its important to show people your worth by doing a good job.
If a company expects someone to work for free for 9 months what does it say about that company? Its definitely one I wouldn't want to work for full time.
27 comments:
You couldn't have put it better! I spent most of my university career and all my holidays (English students don't have many lectures!)slogging my guts out at glossy mags in hope of a job. This included doing Christmas shopping for the beauty editors son, spending hours in the ironing cupboard and being bagel/coffee/water fetcher all in the name of 'experience'. One of my most important jobs was to hand wash one of the editors cups every night as they didn't trust the dishwasher! When I was finally offered a paid for position at the glossiest of the glossies, much to my delight, it was a on four figure salary...and this was in 2001! So you are completely correct , the only girls who can work for free (as four figure salaries are still practically working for free) are the ones that can be otherwise supported, meaning that a lot of hard working girls have to go elsewhere - and that is why we get fashion and beauty writers suggesting we use pipe cleaners as eyebrow accessories!
This is something very close to my heart. I never had the money, nor the parents living in London, to do an internship. Despite graduating top of my class on a prestigious fashion journalism postgrad and, at that time, having one years writing experience (but not in-house coffe making and the like)I could not get a paid job.
Instead I took the long route and kept freelancing until I had enough contacts and work to pay the bills, but it's tough knowing I'll never have my dream job because I can't afford to work for free.
Sob, sniffle.
It just goes to show how a valuable educational concept such as internship can be exploited and abused by greedy employers. Ideally, an internship provides valuable on-site experience which can't be duplicated in a classroom. It's meant to be an integral part of the educational experience. Many times, course credit is granted or it's part of a course's requirements. And, in some cases, the interns are actually paid! Imposing an internship requirement on someone who has exited school and is ready to work is, as you put it, ". . .thoroughly nasty. . ."
What an excellent post, and as another poster said, something close to my heart. I graduated 3 years ago with a Journalism degree, did my fair share of interning for free finally got a job at a newspaper and then got made redundant. After doing more interning for free and no offers of paid work, I had to kiss goodbye to my dream job, I couldn't afford to try and support myself and paying for travel to get nothing in return, mainly being treated like pond life by all the permanent workers. All I saw were rich kids who were lucky enough to be funded by there parents and intern until they got a permanent position. I can't help but feel how unfair it is for people that don't have this luxury and I really wish there was a solution to it!
(Apologies for the mini rant but this is a topic that really makes me mad)
DINKY and BBB, it is FANTASTIC see this addressed in the public realm. I too do not have the privilege of mummy and daddy to foot my bill as an adult or student and have never been able to take an internship to 'further' my career. Every one I had ever seen (I'm 29) has been unpaid. No joke. It's common practice in America. You would be hard pressed to find one that actually did pay.
Instead, I tirelessly worked down an indirect path towards my goals, finding paid work to support myself while letting the other stuff become a hobby. Indeed, it's wage slavedom to which many a current wage slave would growl 'that's life. Deal with it. We can't all do what we like in this life'. However, what these disgruntled wage slaves miss is that, with a few minor changes (paying interns and opening up the institution to the less-than wealthy who posses the skills), a fulfilling work life outside of cubical hell could be available to you too and the industries at hand would benefit from your added and different perspective.
It absolutely riles me too see all sorts of people who pretend as if they've gotten the job or founded something because of their own sweat and skill when, it's like you say, they were either simply in line behind someone without parental funding (even as an adult). The same things has happened in journalism. Won't write an article for free? Don't worry, there's someone out there who will, thereby depressing the wages of the entire industry, rendering it useless as a livelihood. There's something to be said for group think when it benefits the you directly. I don't understand how people cannot grasp that point. Even the selfish ones - it will be a boon to you to hold out! What are you missing there!
It's unethical and irresponsible - not to mention short sighted - behaviour on behalf of companies who do this. Let's put it this way. Companies, if you don't have the money to pay interns, YOUR BUSINESS MODEL IS NOT VIABLE. If you do have the money and just don't want to do it, then that's unethical. Either way, you don't look good.
It's short sighted because as a company and an employee, you simply maintain the status quo with this practice, never pushing the boundaries or nurturing innovation because there's no variation in the people-scape or collective background. There is no margin.
However, I find that I am capable far beyond a lot of those at my stage in life, probably due, in large part, to the scrappiness I've cultivated over the years. I appreciate the experience I've had. It hasn't been easy but then, as any good Buddhist would say, life is suffering!
Seriously, the route in life of the un-funded might be rougher than those born into money, but those without the proverbial silver spoon can very often end up being good at what they do with (gasp) real skills. And, it is true, life isn't fair, but it also isn't static. It's dynamic and we shouldn't treat it as if it's anything else.
Wow, that was awesome.
I think one of the worst is when they make YOU pay for the internship. I know Dior does this every year with their charity auction, and every year it usually gets about $3000+ or so. Even though its for charity, its still pretty questionable.
Great post. I remember back when I was at university in the early 2000s, I was called in for a "chat" at the Estee Lauder head office to talk about the "opportunity" to get work experience there over the summer. When I was there, I was told interns would be unpaid and would also need to commit to a minimum of 3 months. Unpaid for 3 months in Central London?! And they have at least 5 interns on the go at any one time.
I think the disbelief must have shown in my face because the HR girl made sure to tell me that "We get a lot of applications from people wanting to work here. You'll find a lot of them have extra jobs on the side, in restaurants and bars for example, to allow them to work here".
But then when pressed, she seemed to actually be embarrassed to explain that the job wouldn't involve any real experience of working there. She even added "but everyone has to do filing, even my manager does filing". But actually, I've since heard from people who have been there that the interns there don't even get to do filing - it's mostly making tea.
It's totally true that these jobs often end up being the privilege of only the already-rich. I'm sure the companies tell themselves that they only get the most keen employees this way (the ones who will do *anything* to work there), but they also miss out on a lot of other good candidates.
Hahaha @ pipe cleaners as eyebrow accessories. Exactly!
Here in Canada, it's pretty much a given that you won't get a magazine staff job without an internship on your resume. And I can only think of a handful of places that pay an honorarium ($500 for 3 months - something like that), and NONE of them are fashion or beauty mags.
At the same time, I hate to say it but about 50% of the interns I've worked with over the years weren't going to make it anyway - either they just didn't have the writing skills, or they had a bad attitude, etc. I'm constantly finding this with writers I work with too - so many times I've given people the benefit of the doubt (assuming they will be great because they have so much experience) and they turn in shoddy work.
This field is so subjective - I think that's part of reason why unpaid internships have caught on, as you get to "test" someone out before hiring. But maybe if they were compensated properly it would raise the bar. (I still blame Sex and the City for the influx of Scary Sadshaws!)
Anyway, not holding my breath that it's going to happen any time soon!
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels strongly about this subject. I have noticed a surge of 'internship' positions advertised compared to when I was at school, writing to magazines for work experience and getting hundreds of rejection letters. I got a couple of opportunities but then I was faced with the problem of getting a job in journalism and like one of the ladies who's commented above, took the route of freelancing to build up contacts and experience.
I've had a considerable number of articles published in glossy magazines (including my first ever cover story) but it hasn't made things any easier, not when there is a preference to 'exploit' with these unpaid internships. How on earth can anyone be expected to give up a year of their working life to NOT be paid?
No matter how much it's glammed up, it's simply free labour. And I'm afraid, if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys and that will reflect in the standard of work magazines produce.
Unfortunately I've now got magazine editors (some of whom paid me to write for them) claiming they can't pay me but I am more than welcome to write for them, bearing in mind I won't get paid. I don't think so. It takes me months sometimes to research, interview and write up my features so to not receive some kind of acknowledgement and respect for it is insulting. But just because I've turned them down politely, I'm sure there are plenty who will be happy to slog their guts out for nothing till the novelty wears off.
I've done a lot of unpaid written work and most of it is for my own website (and now blogs), and they have filled me with more happiness and satisfaction so no regrets there, considering there is no profit involved in those projects and I will continue to devote myself to these but I am afraid my days at getting paid for my writing are over.
OMG - this is something that I try not to get too wound up about on a DAILY basis! At the ripe, old age of 33 I find myself a financially challenged cosmetic obsessive that would have KILLED to be able to follow my passion as a career in one form or another. To be frank, I come from a place where I couldn't even afford to stay beyond my first year in university so blagged my way into various jobs in investment banking. Now here I sit having been made redundant last week trying to figure out how to make my job choices so that I can pay for a roof over my head but not want to fling myself out of the nearest window. And how is it that one of my friends now does post-grad communications lecturing at Leeds Uni after having to give up working in Central London on £15k for too many years doing PR for one of the nation's best known spa based beauty brands? And what about my fashion PR genius friend now living in NYC that literally works for free? Are her placements at Chanel, GAP, Anne Klein, etc in London worth nothing? SHe's just lucky she has a boyf that can afford to keep her!
The injustices of fair payment make me mad, but the lack of equal opportunity for the fiduciarily challenged is what really gets me going.
Ok, I'm officially in ranting mode now. Off to watch a YouTube video of otters holding handsin order to calm down and feel better about life again.
So thrilled to hear that there are some people at the top of the industry who feel the same as those at the bottom! After a long stint of internships, I had to sell ot to a paid job elsewhere- I even had to buy one beauty editor's week's supply of cheese! It is also great to hear that free labour is not the only way to get into the beauty world and that determination and freelancing can get you just as far- long reign the rebellious beauty intern! Thanks BBB x
Great post. It is exactly the same in the Music Industry. I have been working in music PR for a couple of years now, while doing my degree. Finishing in February I am looking for work, been approached by someone offering a full-time position as a PR assistant, surprise surprise, it's payless. There is NO way I could support myself in London with zero income, even if it's my 'dream job'. My next plan is to start my own company ;)
Great post.... and something I feel strongly about too...
When I graduated in 2002 I was offered a 6-month unpaid internship in the fashion department of a leading glossy. I said no - my Dad had offered to support me, but I wanted to pay my own way - and I had spent all my university holidays doing free work experience at various publications and I was OVER it. When I turned down the position (over the telephone) the girl didn't bother trying to hide her shock. I think the words were along the lines of 'No-one ever turns down this position'... I was told that I was naive to think I would get a paid job - apparently that wasn't how the industry worked...
Well - I proved them wrong. Within a few weeks, I was sitting at my desk on a national magazine (a weekly - and not in fashion - but I found my way there eventually, through lots of hard work). I wanted to ring that girl up and inform her that I was getting a pay packet every month - I felt like I'd beaten the system.
However - I had to eat my words. 7 years later, I was on the fashion desk of a national paper and it was my job to recruit the interns. I had to do it - otherwise I'd be shown the door - but it made me sick that they were doing so much (boring, mundane, repetitive) work for nothing - not even train fares. On the other hand, the company don't treat their employees well either - I wasn't getting sick pay or bank holiday pay, but at least I was getting something. It is true that not all of the interns were very good - and a couple of the REALLY good ones ended up with jobs. But there were still a good 80% good, ambitious interns that were doing this with no hope of ever securing a role.
Having said that, I don't know how the situation can ever change... To award somebody a full-time, paid role, you want to know that they a) have some previous experience and b) understand the nature of the role (not all glamour photo shoots - but actually a lot of mundane tasks too) - so surely if we do start paying for interns, there will need to be a level below (perhaps it'll just be called 'work experience') for them to get these qualifications? I really hope the situation can be resolved - but I just can't see it happening.
We take on interns every year - we recruit from unis with courses which require a year's industry placement. I'm pleased to say that we have always paid our interns. I consider the intern to be very much part of the team - they have a fresh approach to the industry and usually offer a very positive contribution to the company. I think your post is really interesting and does raise a very valid issue.
Students leave uni these days with huge amounts of debt due to course fees so adding to that extoritionate London living costs for an unpaid placement is just not an option for the majority of people.
I hope other companies follow suit and start paying for these team members.
Excellent Post BB. As a man working in the beauty industry from not the most opulent of backgrounds, this rings far too true. Whilst my company is good here in that it pays interns fully, the rest could certainly do the same. Without pay, internships becomes the reserve of the privileged and not necessarily the most able, just like the judiciary and the media.
I'm thrilled to see such an influential voice in the industry finally speak up about this problem - thank you BBB! I've been interning for free at a publication for the last 6 months as part of my sandwich degree, with another 6 months to go. Although that places me as one of the lucky few that has some of her funding covered by the folks, this does not mean an easy ride. Both my parents have had to make serious cut backs and sacrifices to pay for my living costs, I do not come from a well-off background and they are going without so that I can have my "dream job" - an element of this year I wake up and feel sick with every day. I'm 22 and feel terrible for having to rely on my parents for money at this age. They consistantly tell me they want to help but this does not distract from my fear that they do not realise how far up the ladder I am still yet to climb. These days, my chances of getting a paid job in journalism after I graduate are looking increasingly pathetic, and yet both my family and I have confirmed we cannot afford another unpaid placement.
So what will I do? Give up on my dreams after I've achieved a valuable years experience just because I won't work for free again? Does that fact instantly slot me into the "doesn't want it bad enough" catagory?
It’s a tricky one! Personally, I completely agree with the ranting, and rant about it myself. We have had girls come for interview for (paid) positions at Diary & Diary Directory who have been interning at magazines for, in some cases, up to two years unpaid! It was my understanding that the National Minimum Wage was a legal requirement unless under certain specific circumstances – eg a required temporary work placement (ie a couple of weeks) as part of a relevant course of study.
As to whether it is the responsibility of publications not to advertise internships, we are in a competitive market where customer service is paramount, and if Diary won’t post our paying subscribers’ intern vacancies – someone else will. (I have had a look at Diary Directory’s Job Lots page and currently we have 8 paid vacancies, and 7 internships.)
We often speak to people, not only journalists, but stylists, make-up artists, photographers, illustrators etc, who are suffering because they are finding it increasingly difficult to get paid a fair wage for their work – prospective employers can instead commission a keen, recent graduate, who is only to happy to work for free… for now. Until the bills and other costly realities of life kick in. Perhaps then, when they have the temerity to ask for a wage, they will be replaced by a more recent graduate / someone less financially encumbered!
My own opinion, is that people should not work / be expected to work more than a couple of weeks unpaid, that they should always receive expenses, and, perhaps most importantly, that the job should offer them real and useful experience. Diary used an intern recently (she was American and did two weeks work experience as part of her ‘English Studies’ course which required a summer stay in the UK). Whilst she was here, she was taught to mail merge, how to do some basic html, a bit about databases, and massively improved her phone skills (don’t underestimate them!) A friend of hers on the same course interned at a PR agency (not to be named!) and spent a week dusting, tidying – and varnishing a door.
It is not publications’ responsibility to enforce the NMW law, but that of the companies trying to get free labour. But you have made me think - perhaps Diary will start requesting a guarantee from advertisers that their internships are short-term, with expenses paid, and where real experience is being offered. We won’t be able to police it – but perhaps it’s a start?
Thank you BBB for raising this issue. It’s so nice to know people at the top are concerned by this too. As a current intern, struggling to find a job, I can confirm it is almost impossible to find paid placements. I have been interning on the beauty teams of various UK magazines for about a year now and have only had two paid placements, which actually makes me one of the very lucky ones! Despite having had really positive feedback everywhere I’ve worked, I’ve still not managed to find a permanent job, which means I’ve had to live off my rapidly dwindling savings and hand outs from my extremely generous and understanding boyfriend!! I have to leave my current placement at the end of this month, and I’m wondering if it’s time to give up on the ‘dream career’ and find a job that pays…
At every Christmas Party our CEO gets on the mic with a mighty speach about how we're doing profit wise, how important the people are in the company and how much we have saved by having interns... a cringe worthy moment that makes my skin crawl.
Yes let's get these interns in and pay them ZERO for their hard work and throw them a few goodies here and there to try and make up for the fact that we cannot pay them when the company is going into the millions where profit is concerns is quite frankly disgusting... don't get me started on not recruiting when a member of the team goes elsewhere and there is more work for everyone else(but that's another story!)
I am one of the lucky ones whereby I found a company that paid their interns well and got the goodies too but I have no idea how these poor students do it now!
What a disgusting practice! I am actually wondering why anyone bothers to go to uni - clearly, all you need is a rich mum and dad to fund you while you slave away in some office fetching coffee for people. How sad. Why not pay a fair wage, instead of using what is essentially slave labour to boost the profits, and actually make it sound like you are doing them a favour? Oh, and then to "reward" them with another wageless job? Wow... What an absolute farce!
I think that placements are a good idea, it helps you learn not only if you are good at something but if you actually enjoy it as well. However, I have completed a few in my time and when you have to pay £100 a week to go to 'work' and all you do is become the office 'skivvy' then there is no benefit for anyone. I think that if there is a structured scheme then placements are invaluable experience, but so many companies now take advantage of people desperate for jobs. I really think there needs to be some guidelines put in place, but I will say that some of the placements that I have done in the past have also been amazing. I have learnt so much from them and that has got me to a paid job which i love today!
Internships are such a minefield in my experience. I'm 26, and have been working for a national publishing company, in paid for positions, since I graduated 2 years ago. When I had my interview, despite the fact that I'd attended a top 10 university and had a Second Class Honours degree, the only thing my employers were interested in was the work I'd done 'in my spare time'. Since I was sixteen, I've had a succession of paid and unpaid for jobs, shop and bar work, telephone sales, and a few lots of work experience/internship positions. The only way I was able to take these unpaid positions was because I had paid jobs too, and I didn't agree to any internships that were longer than three weeks. I made it clear to my employers that I was hugely interested in their brand and the work they do - even if I wasn't - and that I wanted to get involved in as much as possible to make the most of my time and theirs. Maybe I was lucky, but I never once got asked to make tea or tidy away boxes or anything. These placements included and international record company and a national glossy, btw. I am totally in support of people being paid for internships because of what they offer to a company (often more than what the company offers them), but I cannot stress enough the importance of getting a few of them under your belt. They're such a good way to build up contacts, get insight into a business and a brand, and figure out if that place is somewhere you'd like to work. However, it irks me massively when I hear about interns being taken for a complete ride and being given utterly menial, non-educational tasks to do, but then that intern should speak up and offer to do something more engaging, or make it clear that they want to work hard on something useful. I've seen interns at my company do the task they've been assigned, and then sit at the desk waiting to be told what to do next. It's all about initiave and getting in there first. If you irritate your boss into giving you more to do, and prove you can do it quickly and efficiently, the chances are you won't be stuck making tea for much longer. Times like this are ideal to prove yourself as an intern because companies are short-staffed and cash-strapped. A month of hard work from an intern can make such a difference to both parties, but interns shouldn't just expect to turn up and be given a feature to write or a celebrity to interview! What you put in will come back eventually. It's a hard way to go about it, but it's probably one of the best, too.
It's the same in TV/advertising industry. Companies think people should be grateful for the privilege of working for free for known names.
I have a friend who started to work as a runner for a national TV station and after non paid internship was offered a job for less than £10k - this meant for her taking loans to live in London without slightest excess. The poor girls is still in debt in her late 20s. It's absolutely shocking how little talented people are worth these days.
Brilliant article, and it's not just the beauty industry either. I work in the marketing industry, and saw much of the same here in the states when I was looking for my current job. If it wasn't an unpaid internship, it was wanting a degree and experience but paying a wage that, incidently, is well below what is considered "very low income" in housing standards.
Free labor isn't just for the young and recently graduated, either! When my mom was looking for a new job, she encountered positions wanting her to work for up to 80 hours unpaid as a professor! An experienced, well-referenced and recommended professor with 2 advanced degrees. Unbelieveable. Not to mention the location where her unpaid work would be was a good 2 hours' drive away.
My company recently hired a friend of mine to intern, but in the truer sense of what an internship is meant to be. She won't actually really be contributing to the projects we have going so much as learning about what we do so she can add skills to her resume. We don't have coffee (but we do have a starbucks across the street) or files. ;) By the way, this isn't her full time job. What she's doing is working full time as a waitress and interning 2 or so days a week during the day. She jokes about us giving her all the random slave labor we don't want to do, but that will certainly not be the case and I look forward to teaching her some things. :)
California was hit VERY hard by the economy, and though economic situations are improving, the job market out here has not seen much improvement. We have an influx of experienced unemployed people willing to take ANY job, even entry-level, as long as it's paid. The recent grads don't have much of a chance, I'm afraid. My friend graduated over a year ago from her graphic design program and says only 1 classmate that she knows of has paid work in their field. Shocking.
I have to say, throughout my degree I pushed myself (without income from my parents)working where I could at PR companies and publications for free whilst also holding down a bar job five nights a week. Yes, it was tough but boy do I feel good for it now. I learnt more than being at university and made many valuable contacts that have helped my throughout my career.
I now take on interns in my PR job now and take pride that I havent forgot how it was for me five years ago. I make sure my girls are well looked after. Yes, I cannot pay them but I do give them a great insight into the world of PR, teaching them key skills that have been passed down from previous peers. Interns are not there to clean your shoes, buy your cheese or wash your mugs. They are with a company to gain experience in their chosen field, learn and grow in order to fly the nest and work their way up the ladder just like I did 5 years ago. It is hard that many smaller companies do not pay interns and I do agree something should be changed. The government had started a scheme whereby they would pay companies to enrol interns which would then be handed directly to the intern as payment. When myself and my last intern looked into this we got nowhere. In fact, our final answer was to speak to Gordan Brown!
PR's and journalists please stop and think about the way to treat your interns. Show them respect and teach them all you know.
I own a tiny beauty company. We have two full time employees and in the past year we have had 2 unpaid interns. I think this is exactly the sort of situation where an unpaid internship is a good thing. I can't afford to pay my interns, I only pay myself and my other staff member minimum wage. The company is still new and entering into a contract with staff is very risky still. The interns that have worked with us where offered positions for a 3 week period, which is what the employment office suggests for unpiad internships. Both learned so much here that they have asked to return, unpaid, as they are getting more experience here than in the paid jobs they left to do. I agree that big companies should be more fair, but little companies simply wouldn't be able to afford it. And an internship is all about experience and learning after all. Worst case I heard was someone working at a big fashion brand (shall remain nameless) for free for a year. That is no longer an internship- that is a job.
I thought this was a great post. Im an inspiring fashion buyer and the past few months have been seeking experience interning. I found many vacancies but they were opportunities with 2 companies advertising for an intern to work for 3 months and even 9 months unpaid without expenses in central london!
I decided against any of those opportunities because i felt it was exploitation.It did get me thinking how could anyone afford to work for nothing and more often then not its candidates with rich families who can support them.
I was once told that it was important to never undersell your self and underestimate your worth and likewise its important to show people your worth by doing a good job.
If a company expects someone to work for free for 9 months what does it say about that company? Its definitely one I wouldn't want to work for full time.
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